CNM Q&A

Toronto-based Decode Entertainment has seen a flurry of activity in recent weeks. The company has recently begun development on a new original game engine for the Nintendo DS system and has launched an ITV application in conjunction with its Be The Creature property for users of Vidéotron Ltée’s illico ITV set-top boxes, as well completing the beta version of PC Multiplayer video game with DC Studios. Its preschool TV series Franny’s Feet has just been enhanced with a new web portal produced with the support of the Bell Broadcast and New Media Fund, Family.ca and ABC Australia. This web site was just licensed in Japan to OLC and was the winner of a World Wide Web Award. GirlStuff BoyStuff Avatar World has been licensed to ABC in Australia, and the company continues to see new license agreements being struck in Europe and Australia for other properties. Canadian NEW MEDIA editor Jeff Leiper recently spoke with Decode VP of interactive Dan Fill about the company’s activities and new directions. An edited transcript of that conversation follows. Canadian NEW MEDIA: There’s a whole lot going on at Decode. It strikes me that you’re going into some new areas for Decode, particularly the unnamed platform game. I’m wondering what went into that decision to branch out a traditional companion web site, convergence TV model into something like this. Dan Fill: It has been a while that we have been developing projects with the vision that they’re brands that can live in many different formats. Even from day one when I started working with Decode, the goal with the web sites was that they would be pieces of entertainment rather than promotional sidekicks. How long ago was that? That’s five years in January. The reality is that in some ways while we’re looking at developing for different platforms, we haven’t really changed what our goal was originally: to create great brands. Great brands for television. Great brands for books. Great brands for web or gaming or film. That really hasn’t changed. It’s now finding other areas and other platforms that are appropriate for them. What is a little different is that we’re doing some original IP development. We’re developing some brands that might start in an interactive space and then carry over on the television side, if all goes well. On the game development side, our first crack at that was a Playstation 2 prototype last year . That, for me personally, was a very satisfying experience, and I think helped us see how we could efficiently use resources from our shows to create pieces of entertainment that were appropriate for other media. What kind of resources are those? Things like digital assets directly from the shows. There were 3D elements from the show. Character models, visual effects. Some of the animators that worked on the original show helped with some of the guidance with the interactive project. And, of course, the producers and production team at Decode that worked on the show were available to guide us on our interactive development. I mean using digital assets from shows for interactive productions is not brain surgery – we’ve been doing that to a certain extent with our web sites, as well. Shows that have CGI components, whether they’re done in Flash or whether they’re done in 3D, we’re able to take those elements and then adapt them rather than having to create things from scratch. That isn’t, again, a major stretch, but now we are keen to see how far we can go. But it’s more than just the digital assets. It’s a way of thinking. It’s talents and creative skill set that you’ve built up within Decode, as well. That’s very kind. Whether we are forward-thinking, or whether I am just really really cheap and want to squeeze every cent out of digital production – I guess there is a fine line between being forward thinking and being frugal. In reality, a lot of the great ideas start with the writers and we look no further than TV writers for most of our projects. We spend a lot of time working with creative storytellers who may not have ever worked in the interactive space before, and they work on our shows and we basically engage them to come on and take a pass at writing interactive content. And then what happens is that either you have a consultant or a project lead from our own internal team to help flesh out the writing so that it can be translated into an actual game. TV writers write in a linear manner, and we don’t want them to change that at all, in fact we encourage that they keep thinking and writing the way that they have crafted their skills. But then after they have completed a pass we bring in interactive partners to help turn the writing into activities. That’s something that we’ve been working on fostering – the writing skills of writers who write for traditional media – and bringing them over into gaming and interactive space. One of the interesting presentations at the Montreal Games Summit recently was from Jason Della Rocca who was talking about how all the big hits are always original intellectual property. And the licensed properties may make money for the stockholders, but they’re going to be limited successes. Wheras, the real breakaway successes are going to be in the original intellectual property. You know, I think it goes in cycles. I’ll be completely honest with you. What I saw a few years ago was a whole slew of new developers that were independent developers, that were all creating their own original IP. And, all these original games were coming out and I think a lot of that had to do, at least in terms of console, with the fact that the three platforms were competing against each other and they needed content. That is less the case now, there are hundreds of games for all three systems. Now that we’re kind of in the later stages of the console development, they’ve moved away from that. There’s been a lot of developers who have been bought out by the publishers. Others have fallen to the side because they can’t get those sweet deals to develop their own original IP. And, we’re seeing at this particular moment, very conservative decisions made about game development. The sequels are all out, like NHL 2005 even though there’s no season – anything that’s worked. Like a Grand Theft Auto, which is an original title, but now we’re in, San Andreas, right? That’s safer than starting from scratch. But, there are also going to be new platforms that start out, like a new console as early as next Christmas, handheld already. I don’t know what that will mean, but if it follows the past pattern, it should look like the opportunity for original IP. The only thing that is going to be interesting to see is that these new games, if they’re going to fully utilize the capabilities of these new next-generation systems, they’re going to be very, very expensive. We’ll have to wait and see. Anyways, for us, you know, we like the Nintendo DS. It’s very cool. It’s a dual-screen handheld device that supports wireless multiplayer gaming. And, there are no real time strategy games for handheld that have ever been produced because there was never a wireless connection with this, to our knowledge. It looked like the perfect opportunity to investigate this new approach. We’re very happy to be working with Electron Jump on this initiative. Interesting, now is this a high-risk game for you? Do you have a lot riding on this? First of all, we are developing an engine and a prototype of a game. In terms of the engine itself – there’s high risk and there’s HIGH RISK. I wouldn’t say it’s HIGH RISK. I think, in fact, just because it’s such a new system, there will be challenges but it is exciting and we definitely have an investment in place. We have some incredible talent on board for this project so having that really helps lessen the risk. But it won’t sink the company if it doesn’t work out? No. It won’t make my day, but it won’t sink us. One of the things that’s nice about these handheld activities is that they’re a little bit easier to finance over a high-budget console game. And, how are you financing this? Now, Jeff, we can’t give you all our secrets. We’ll have more information in due course. Fair enough, we’ll eagerly anticipate that news. Now, I want to come back for a moment to the traditional convergent TV model – of, a community site, or of an additional content site, back-end story site, associated with a TV brand. Where is that model today for Decode? You’ve still got a couple of interesting properties that I’m looking at, where you’re working within that sort of paradigm. For sure. Listen, for us I think that that has been a very successful model. It will continue to be something that we do, because it makes a lot of sense. It’s, one, really supportive of the brand itself, and, two, it’s great for broadcasters; Three, it’s a great source of entertainment. So, we’re going to continue to do that. Today we signed some more licensing deals, and you saw some of the things that are coming down the pipe. It’s been solid for us. We’re kind of looking at other opportunities that are coming up that might see direct marketing to consumers. In the web to portal licenses, it is a business to business deal with broadcasters.. They’re the ones who are responsible for what the offering is at the end of the day. And that has been a great experience. It’s also nice to be in a position to explore either going directly to the audience with a brand that is too new for the broadcaster, or,work with the broadcaster to try to get something to retail as partners.But we are still all about TV shows with interactive content. You can expect that if a new interactive brand does well it will fall onto the TV development slate. I feel that as a company we are moving forward. It’s like, here we are five years later and there’s more things we can do. Multiplayer activities and communities, wireless applications and console/handheld devices are all very interesting areas that serve up entertainment. The innovation is getting better and better. If you are in the kids space you should not turn your back on this. Now, in some respects, moving on to these other platforms like Vidéotron’s illico box and onto the Nintendo DS system, you’re outstripping where government is in terms of its funding priorities, where government is still more into that traditional convergent model that we were just chatting about. The big cuts to the big funds that have supported the more traditional convergence model, I’m wondering to what extent those are forcing developers such as yourself and property managers such as yourself to move into new platforms? I would say to be totally honest with you the funds like Bell Fund are very supportive of these kinds of initiatives, particularly wireless and ITV if they’re using the web and have a television program. Obviously, in the case where we don’t have a television show related to something, where we’re doing some original application development, that is something that isn’t appropriate for a fund like Bell. But, my feeling is that they have encouraged the creation of content that will be for multiple different media outlets. They’re driving the bus to a certain extent. They just don’t have the kind of financial resources they need to really make it fly. That’s why the CRTC needs to let them have their money back that they lost in the highly unpopular cut. It’ll probably just be a rubber-stamp to have Telefilm’s funding renewed. I think that is great news that Tomorrow Starts Today has been renewed and I think the whole community will thank the minister of Heritage for the ongoing investment and recognition of the importance this funding plays to Canadian innovators. It also speaks very positively for the hard work of the CCOP and the independent production community to rally together. What is really important now is that within this program they allocate significantly more funding to original production and IP development. Telefilm’s budget of $9 million dollars a year for the whole country is so low it makes it almost impossible to compete. To put it in perspective, the average new game for next generation console is expected to be US$20,000,000 per title. With a Telefilm contribution of $250,000, Canadian, towards production you’ll need 98% of the rest of your budget if Telefilm is to be involved. Canadians have every reason to be in the gaming space – gaming is a leading entertainment destination for kids and a great place to showcase Canadian intellectual properties; Canadians produce a vast amount of the software applied to these activities and frankly it is potentially the most lucrative of all other forms of entertainment much more so that TV, Canadian film, magazines or publishing. So now it is going to take the insight of the CCOP group to increase the allocation to Telefilm dramatically. I think that the appointment of Wayne Clarkson is being very positively received by the new media community. By all accounts, he understands our community and is a visionary of what interactive entertainment can become. But to be effective Telefilm’s Canada New Media Fund needs some real resources. Telefilm could very easily be set up in such a way that they could encourage international co-production of very large scale projects. But they need to be set in such a position that will allow for that. They need to be able to provide the kind of funding that will allow for that kind of thing. And, right now that’s just not the case. It is disappointing that the renewal was only for one year. I can’t imagine how labour intensive it is to Ottawa to have to be faced with lobbying efforts year after year – it is really hard on the producers. But ultimately I am very pleased to see the funding restored and hope that it will translate to some great new media projects coming out of Canada over the next year. Tell me more about the Be the Creature property for which you’ve launched an ITV application. Be the Creature is a documentary series with Martin and Chris Kratt – the Kratt Brothers, and it was commissioned by the National Geographic Channel in the U.S., and then we sold it to pretty much worldwide the National Geographic Channel – like, 140 countries, or so. And then, CBC in Canada and Télé-Québec in Quebec. On the interactive side, we came up with this really extensive multimedia plan that consisted of an extremely large web site, an educational resource, an interactive television strategy, and an immersive role-playing game – entirely CGI game. We’re doing the game with DC Studios in Montreal. The web site’s live right now. It’s been licensed to National Geographic Channel, CBC’s got a version, and there’s a French version with Tele-Quebec. It’s got a community where you can find outdoor lifestyle resources, you can learn about the wildlife resource,Grizzly Gulch that they set up in Northern Alaska. And then it’s got an extensive library of information about the animals featured in the show. We supplement the show with adventure stories from the Kratts and outtakes that didn’t make the show. Tthe ITV component was a requirement of the Fonds Videotron funding. The Videotron cable company and TeleQuebec were great to work with – they really made this easy. To create this project, we had generous support from a number of different funds and groups including: Canada Telus Fund, Bell Fund, Telefilm, Vidéotron as well as National Geographic and a great deal of integration services, hosting and translation fees covered by TéleQuebec. DC Studios has been a terrific partner on the games side, and we’ve found working with companies out of Quebec has been absolutely terrific. I’m interested in it because of Vidéotron. We’ve written recently about Media Experts with their new trial of long-form advertising delivered over the illico system. It seems to me that they’re being very, very progressive when we compare them to some of the big broadcast distributors. Bell ExpressVu also seems very open to trying new things, but of course Rogers hax shut down its Wink system. So, we’re taking a look at Vidéotron as a good place to go to try some of this. As a bit of a playground. For sure, and, I mean, they use this middleware called Bluestreak that’s utilized in their system. Those guys are fairly aggressive, as well. And, they’ve got systems that utilize that middleware that are down in the States. They’ve got Turner’s interactive television box system that also supports Bluestreak, as well. So, they’ve been a really good resource in helping to push forward. So, we can probably look forward then to seeing you guys do more of this sort of thing as you continue to develop televison properties, as well. Our focus is more on games, web and wireless for the moment. As for ITV, I think we’re going to wait and see how it all goes over, how the numbers are and everything. But, absolutely it’s on the radar. One thing that was nice about the ITV experience was that, because it’s supported a bit of a Flash infrastructure and using the Bluestreak middleware, it wasn’t too ardous to do, and it was something that we could for the most part do internally with the assistance of a consultant. I guess the one thing that we’re waiting for from some of the other ITV groups is the ability to use templates so that we can, as developers, do it in-house, without having to go through their systems, internally. Which is, I think, also problematic for them as well. But, having said that, we haven’t really been through the rigmarole with anyone else in Canada. We’d like to work with ExpressVu at some point. We just need the right project and timeline to make sense of it for both parties. So, the Decode story right now seems to be about exploiting assets across platforms? It’s the notion of our interactive department now developing original content, and not just re-purposing things, but that content is being developed really smartly, so that it can be used in other platforms, as well. Now, I guess when I hear you say that, it’s all the right noises, but it hasn’t always been successful for new media development shops in Canada to develop IP. I wonder what makes your projects different? Especially in such a competitive market as that for video games? It’s hard to say. Our core competency is television production and distribution at Decode. My little carved out niche is interactive entertainment development, and I guess the fact that we’re getting a little bit more aggressive in developing IP for both ‘application’ as well as ‘content’ in our little new media group is maybe something that’s of interest. I think that the fact our latest project is a role-playing strategy game engine for a new system that’s just come out and there’s nothing else out there – well, we feel like that has a solid opportunity. We think the creative, the characters that are being developed for the prototype to show off the engine, and using a television development type of process – it seems like a good route. But as you know, Jeff, my crystal ball is as foggy as yours. What do the Decode partners tell you about what you want to do on that side, on the original IP side. I mean, do they regard it with trepidation given the success they’re having with the television side? Do they see it as something they absolutely have to do if they’re to remain a viable entertainment company moving forward? I think that they’re very supportive of quality entertainment that can exist in any media. That’s really what it gets down to. Is it something that they’re going to be proud of, and does it represent the brands properly? Will it have the same care, basically, and will it speak to the audience in a manner that they will be entertained and enjoy it? If so I believe that they are happy with the results. We’ve experienced success online with doing that, and I think that the relationships that we’ve set up with broadcasters and their interactive departments have really grown over the years. I think we’re going to see more interesting partnerships between Decode and some of the broadcasters around the world who are willing to try something original and different. We’ve delivered to broadcasters for a number of years and have kind of grown up with them. So, there’s been a little bit of a learning curve together. In many cases there is a partnership there and I think that can only lead to bigger projects that we can work on together. I don’t know. TV is the tip of the iceberg for an entertainment company. Hopefully our little interactive division can help make brands, extend brands and launch product that is as enjoyable as the shows.

CNM Q&A

News | 12/16/2004 5:00 am EST

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